I didn't realize that you were unironically under the impression that socialism is "when the government owns everything", because that's literally a meme. Socialism has never meant that, nor has any socialist economist or thinker ever claimed that, so I'm not sure where you even made that assertion from..? Socialism isn't even a governmental system, it is an economic one, so your false definition doesn't even make sense either.
Socialism is, in it's most basic definition, an economic system in which the means of production are socially-owned (hence the name). Socialism is definitionally characterized on the basis that all workers/citizens would share democratic ownership over the products/profits of their own labor, without any private owners.
Socialism has no inherent connection to any state or governmental system, with a wide range of socialist ideologies, and there are plenty of forms of socialist ideology that are also anti-state, just like how there is a wide range of capitalist ideologies that can be pro- or anti-state. Neither socialism nor capitalism has to do with government; they are both just economic systems that have to do with the relationship of ownership over a society's economic production.
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
Couldn't help but notice my argument about human nation left you speechless. I schooled you.
@VulcanMan6 11mos11MO
lol what are you talking about? You didn't even make an argument on it, all you said was: "If you don't understand the very basic concept of human nature then this argument is hopeless" which isn't even an argument, nor is it even a point at all.
I had already responded to your previous claims about "human nature" when I replied:
"What "human nature" is there to "perfect"..? That claim doesn't even make sense. Humans are adaptively conditioned under whatever system they materially exist within; there is no objective or intrinsic "human nature" to frame society around, so I have no idea what it is you think any society is "perfecting"?"
And you never responded to this...
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
You're trying to perfect man's greed, thinking they'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya if only the government will steal from the rich and subsidize the lazy. You assume the government will act of noble motives, which is assuming you can perfect the greedy, selfish nature you attribute to the capitalists and the wealthy in the government. By assuming that the very negative qualities you despise in the rich will not be present in the GOVERNMENT, you are essentially WORSHIPPING the State, assuming it will solve all your problems. One month of your Orwellian Nightmare and you'd get a swift does of REALITY CHECK.
@VulcanMan6 11mos11MO
"You're trying to perfect man's greed, thinking they'll all hold hands and sing kumbaya..."
lol why would I think that? I didn't even argue for that either. There you go again attacking strawman arguments you made up yourself so you don't have to actually address any of the things people actually say. Are you afraid you couldn't defend against people's actual positions or something..?
"the government will steal from the rich and subsidize the lazy."
Are you talking about like, a UBI or something? I'm not sure what you're referring… Read more
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
Maybe I should give up on trying to help you see the light, because obviously you hate being told the truth...
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
Capitalism believes government should leave us alone, socialism believes it should run our lives. Simple as that
@VulcanMan6 11mos11MO
lol this is blatantly false, considering that there are a plethora of pro-state capitalist ideologies, just as there are a plethora of anti-state socialist ideologies. Each system has nearly endless forms, encompassing a wide range of ideologies within "capitalism" and "socialism".
The ideology that YOU seem to believe in is likely some form of Libertarian-Capitalism, or perhaps even Minarcho-Capitalism, although not quite into the Anarcho-Capitalism range (since, if I recall correctly, you do still believe in the existence of a state but limited to military, right?). I can tell you don't have as much in-depth understanding of the deeper socio-economic ideologies contained within these systems, so perhaps look into the ones I named, as they might more accurately suit your actual beliefs..?
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
I looked into the ones you named and I'm a socially conservative Libertarian Capitalist, right-wing. You are a senseless authoritarian Socialist, environmentalist hippy, social justice warrior, left-wing.
@VulcanMan6 11mos11MO
I figured you were a Libertarian-Capitalist, yea, which is fundamentally right-wing, so that part was redundant to add on.
However, you still clearly don't understand the deeper ideologies, considering your wild yet vague assumption of me. I am an Anarcho-Communist, because I believe in a moneyless, stateless, classless form of socialism (aka communism) that is free of structural hierarchy (anarchism), hence Anarcho-Communism.
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
SO you think the government should be abolished but first it most be extremely powerful? Which will it be? That's too opposites, and absurdity, a contradiction. Decide. Also, why have you been arguing FOR more government AGAINST me, if you want to abolish the State? It makes no sense. You make no sense.
@TruthHurts10111mos11MO
So you argue for socialism except rejecting all basic premises of socialism. Makes sense.